You know youre a flash geek if / Im not an addict, its cool

Research and Development. This is the place to report experimental stuff related to data recovery.
HaQue
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You know youre a flash geek if / Im not an addict, its cool

Postby HaQue » Tue Jul 30, 2013 4:06 pm

Well, I have been working on the task of cataloguing, photographing and documenting all my research flash drives, CF Cards, SD Cards etc. It is going to be a long haul!
all-1.jpg
all-2.jpg
all-3.jpg
all-4.jpg

So the idea is:

1. Buy / swap / find / steal(just kidding) Flash Media.
2. Photograph it in packaging, out of packaging, exploded view and chips and other bits of interest of the device.
3. Document as much of it as possible, chips, manufacturers of device, chip, controller.
4. Write a test case of files to the device.
5. Unsolder NAND, dump and try to recover using each tools methods.
6. Any difficulties along the way try to solve.

Desired outcomes:
1. I love it, so.. enjoyment :-)
2. Learn the tools
3. Find each tools weakness if any and help manufacturer of tool if possible
4. Learn about test cases to help solve customer cases - I gotta pay for all this somehow.
5. Connect with others in the community and "Give Something Back"
6. Stay alive - Ive heard you can die in your sleep, so not going to take the chance!

I am still working out exactly how I will structure and present the research. Ive come up with a simple table structure so far, so maybe something like this:
web.jpg

open for comments!
cheers
HaQue

digitalferret
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Re: You know youre a flash geek if / Im not an addict, its c

Postby digitalferret » Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:32 pm

oh man! ... lol.

One half of me thinks, he's a masochist, the ther half ... ooh interesting, shame i'm 12,000 miles away :)

Good show dude. Would love to say "if i can help ... "

maybe check out Fenrir FS
http://www.fenrir-inc.com/uk/fenrirfs/

could help with catalog'ing where stuff is in your folders.
Tag based FS system
Much as Gmail tags is is to the old hotmail folders, Fenrir is to Win Explorer

have fun

fzabkar
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Re: You know youre a flash geek if / Im not an addict, its c

Postby fzabkar » Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:12 am

That would be a great resource and much appreciated by all.

One thing I'd like to see are the USB PIDs and VIDs of the flash controllers and of the complete USB mass storage device, or perhaps a detailed UVCView or USBDeview report.

A list of factory or third party tools would be nice, too.

HaQue
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Re: You know youre a flash geek if / Im not an addict, its c

Postby HaQue » Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:52 am

Thanks Kern, well I had a look at that link, interesting but I like to do things real basic, I don't think the filesystem is too much of a prob. Have been toying with the idea of a proper database, SQL might be an advantage later down the track if the data set gets large.

There will almost certainly be room for you to help out, I am going to add a way for others to contribute a "case" so I think I will make up a template and then I can add it and give creds to the contributor. Then it is not just devices I have access to and potentially not relevant for people on the other side of the world.

One thing I'd like to see are the USB PIDs and VIDs of the flash controllers and of the complete USB mass storage device, or perhaps a detailed UVCView or USBDeview report.

A list of factory or third party tools would be nice, too.


Yes I plan to add the PID/VID, adding a UVCView or USBDeview or both reports is something that should be easy enough to add in. Should be no trouble to add any tools for each device too, I was thinking about it. It does add a bit of time to each case, especially as the MPtools "scene" is so messy and the amount of verification to each case required, but it would be very valuable, especially as the firmware is usually included with a lot of the MPtools.

It should be easy enough to add additional properties of each case at any time when the value of such a property is identified.

Thanks for the advice and encouragement. :-)

digitalferret
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Re: You know youre a flash geek if / Im not an addict, its c

Postby digitalferret » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:51 pm

Whats the deal on identifying monoliths.
Looks to be currency, the pinouts on that sort of thing.

Wondering if this as well as the catalog'ing is gonna be the real challenge.

I'm always up for a challenge.
Wet behind the ears wrt Flash tho but way back, when i wanted to just know the resistor colour code for trick, 5 yrs later i had a BEng in electronics. not that i get OCD or anything, just too bloody nosey for my own good =)

You my friend, in a #Top-Gun-esque corruption are, racking up a shopping list in my head which my body can't cash :>)

Kern

HaQue
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Re: You know youre a flash geek if / Im not an addict, its c

Postby HaQue » Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:47 am

digitalferret wrote:Whats the deal on identifying monoliths.
Looks to be currency, the pinouts on that sort of thing.

The trick is to not worry about it too much. Just record every detail possible and then others can say "well this one is sort of like mine, Ill start here.."
I spun my wheels for a while trying to find datasheets, trying to find pinouts and other info, or even trying to find any mention of the damned things at manufacturers sites.
basically just need to record all the details it has, find the pinout. If the tool supports it, report the success, otherwise report that the tool doesnt yet support it, and possibly work with the tool guys to help them support it.

It is amazing just how much time you can waste looking for data on Flash technology.

regarding flash usage/reliability/study 98% of whitepapers seem to reference the same > 1/2 dozen whitepapers. Virtually ALL homebrew NAND hacking for any purpose is either XBOX/WII/PSP NAND shenanigans, or other embedded OS NAND hacking.

I have been looking for a schematic to make my own NAND reader so that I can get a feel for how to interact with the chips. Seems the embedded OS type NANDS and the ones used for flash memory are a different animal.

I also wasted WEEKS trying to figure out controller firmware, reverse engineering it, as it sems mostly based on 8051 processor... I did find a HEX file, put it in IDA and some kind of flow, but I really dont know if the decompilation was valid. most MP Tools come with a crap ton of .bin files, but it is mainly the NAND images etc and I have no idea how to get just the controller firmware seperated out to analyse. plus, I dont know if the controller is a proper MCu, or the thing is mainly hardware with, say, the ECC block, the XOR seed kind of plugged in.. if you know what I mean. The datasheets arent clear in the block diagrams.

What my loose goal here is to be able to read the firmware for the device and see from the disassembly/decompilation how the XOR and ECC is setup and how the mix is as well.

long term goal could be fpga based master controller that could be configured to "be" any controller.. maybe just a pipe dream.

I am wondering if there is a way to hook to the controller in a JTAG type way or serial access or something to read the

digitalferret wrote:You my friend, in a #Top-Gun-esque corruption are, racking up a shopping list in my head which my body can't cash :>)


yes.. I got all those a little at a time. When I took those pics, my sign other walked into the room, looked at them, looked at me and said "thats ridiculous... how much did all that cost????"
I MAY have mistakenly got the ratio of bought:donated SLIGHTY wrong...

digitalferret
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Re: You know youre a flash geek if / Im not an addict, its c

Postby digitalferret » Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:51 pm

Just a side note. is the FE software a download? tryna work out if i get an import duty hit.
If it comes in a box with the $2k value on it, that sticks $400 on it this end.
If i just get the adapters in the post thats $20 if customs even bother.
I think the Ace gear is all-in-one as a price. So i'd get hit.

Theres a bloke in our local business group recently, that mentioned he does FPGA work.
It won't be cheap but maybe i could grab a few hints from him.
Not worked on 8051s choosing the pic years ago instead. been a long time tho.

I'll have a check on alt soldering ideas.
have seen all that knitting in FE forum and its possibly not needed.

HaQue
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Re: You know youre a flash geek if / Im not an addict, its c

Postby HaQue » Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:50 pm

yes just a download, you pay for the key online and get a key by email.

The 8051 .. bear in mind the controller uses a 80C51 "core" so it implements the MCu in there but is strictly not a processor such as the mcu on a wireless router for instance.

I don't know if it is possible to hook up to any undocumented (in the datasheets anyway) UART or JTAG port or other mode of poking it where u shouldn't.

digitalferret
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Re: You know youre a flash geek if / Im not an addict, its c

Postby digitalferret » Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:20 pm

crikey, those tracks are thin aren't they :) whoops

btw, skype ?

HaQue
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Re: You know youre a flash geek if / Im not an addict, its c

Postby HaQue » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:06 pm

bit of work done on this project.. update at http://forum.hddguru.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=26534

between you, me and the gatepost.. I think the guy is obsessed with flash ;-)

fzabkar
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Re: You know youre a flash geek if / Im not an addict, its c

Postby fzabkar » Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:56 pm

Yep, he's definitely crazy. :-)

Thanks for all the good work.


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